Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: You're listening to the Doc Lounge Podcast. This is a place for candid conversations with the healthcare industry's top physicians, executives and thought leaders.
This podcast is made possible by Pacific Companies, your trusted advisor in physician recruitment.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of the Doc Lounge Podcast, where we explore the frontiers of medicine with leading experts. I'm your host, Stacy Doyle, Senior director of marketing at Pacific Companies. Today, we're thrilled to have Swee Wong with us. A distinguished neurologist renowned for her pioneering work in brain health, Dr. Wong has garnered acclaim through her extensive research publications and the Innovative Brains Program, which offers new perspectives on tackling neurological disorders. Join us as we learn from her how to foster a resilient mind and enhance your overall brain health. Welcome to the doc lounge. Dr. Wong, we're so excited to have you. And I know you're, you're tuning in from London, England, tonight.
[00:01:03] Speaker C: Yes, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you so, so much for having me as a guest.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: You're welcome. We're delighted to have you and I'm excited to learn all the things that you've been working on and, and share with us. But I'd love to just learn a little bit about you and how you got, you know, into neurology and tell us a little bit about your journey.
[00:01:23] Speaker C: Thank you so much. So I'm a medical doctor, a physician, and I'm a neurologist.
And so basically I came into neurology because firstly, I wanted to be a doctor. And that was like my dream.
My father was a doctor, my late father, he's passed away now. He really inspired me and I knew I wanted to be a doctor. So I went to medical school in England and then we started the internal medicine training. So in the uk, what we do is after we've graduated our base foundation, we either go into internal medicine or pediatrics or surgery, those kind of big branches. So I. I knew I wanted to work with adults, so I went into internal medicine. And as I was doing my rotations, every rotation was so interesting. It was like, I went to cardiology. Oh, I want to do cardiology. Went to renal medicine. Oh, I want to do renal medicine. I loved it all. And actually, which was so, so wonderful because it tells. It was such a privilege for me to get into medicine, and I was clearly doing what I love. And then I did neurology. So interesting. I was so inspired by the people with me. So I had my senior resident at the time. She moved over to. From a different subspecialty to neurology. And she was telling me how much she loved the specialty, how much, what difference we can make. Because there's so many intricacies to neur. And it was a real art. I love the art of medicine as well as the science of it. So it was all this kind of trying to figure things out. And we have treatments because one of the running jokes back then, long time ago, was that there were limited treatments, sadly for neurology. But of course, things were changing by the time I entered neurology. So that was back in like 2003, 20 years ago now. It was amazing. And so I entered my neurology training.
I did a little bit of a tour around the world, went to work in Australia, tested out the waters of neurology there and realized that, yes, actually I do want to be doing neurology. Then when I came back to the uk, I did my residency training in neurology.
It's the equivalent of that which would take actually in the UK between five to eight years compared to like in the US where you go straight out after medical school, you do four years of residency, you get your neurology board certification. So in the uk, back then, when I did, it was slightly a longer way of doing. It would usually take on average about eight years to get to become a neurologist.
And after I finished my neurology training, as I was approaching it towards the end, I thought, oh, I want to be a better neurologist. I need to understand eye movements. So my bosses were really very kind. They allowed me to go on this to different institutes to learn about eye movements, learn about vision and the brain. So in this area called neuro ophthalmology, so vision aspect of the brain. So I did a little, did a few months in that area, and then I had the opportunity to do a fellowship. So that's why now I am a neurologist and a neuro ophthalmologist. Long way around doing the job. I love. Very, very, very lucky.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: I love that. Well, that's really interesting to hear how they, you know, kind of, they work together.
And it sounds like you kind of just knew that this was where your passion was after you tried those, you know, you're trying the different programs and getting exposed to them.
So tell us, what are some of the biggest misconceptions I think, you know, out there about, you know, just brain health?
[00:05:16] Speaker C: So I think just generally there is, I think people don't really realize that there are things that they can do to improve their brain health. So it's not A case of somebody gets a diagnosis and that's it. You know, it's neurodegenerative, or if somebody has got some other systemic health issues like diabetes, oh, that's it. You know, they're at risk of certain conditions with the brain and such and such things. One of the biggest misconceptions, I think, is that we can't do anything about it. And I work very, very hard to share how we can empower people to do something about it, because everybody has got the tools within their ability to build, and that would be through lifestyle measures, in addition to, of course, the options of medications or surgery. And I always feel that my job when people come and see me in my consultation room when they have a medical problem, is to share with them the evidence basis of what can help them. So that could be medications, that could be surgery, that could be lifestyle changes as well.
[00:06:30] Speaker B: And I know you've done so much work around this research and work to develop a program. So tell us a little bit about the brains program and what really makes it revolutionary in the field of neurological disorders.
[00:06:44] Speaker C: The brains approach is really a way I summarize my approach of thinking about brain health through the lens of lifestyle and integrative medicine. So it really stands for building brain resilience. For the first part of the br.
Building brain resilience. And the second part is balancing the autonomic nervous system, which would be things like, how do we manage stress levels, how do we, you know, manage the fight and flight and also the rest and relax part of the autonomic nervous system. The autonomic nervous system, as you may know, is the part of our nervous system that happens with the automatic function, with our blood pressure, with our heart rate, with our sweating, with the dilatation of our pupils, and lots of automatic functions. And it's managed by this part of the nervous system called the autonomic nervous system.
And we classically think of two parts to it. You have the fight or flight, which is, as in you get up, you go. And then you have the other part, which is you rest and relax. And it's actually about the balance of both, because we need both. It's not that fight or flight is bad, you know, the sympathetic, as in you have to go, get up and go. It's great doing a presentation, doing preparing for an exam. You just need to be up and ready and go, wake up in the morning, have to get up. Your sympathetic has to come to the forefront. And then later, during different parts of the day, for digestion, for resting for sleep, we want the second part, the rest and relax, or the parasympathetic part of the autonomic nervous system to kick in. So it's about the balance of both. And I think of it like a little seesaw where sometimes you want one part to be more and sometimes you want the other part to be more activated. So it's by using practices that could help with that, which could include mindfulness, mind body movements, mind body connection, breath work, yoga and such types of practices. But the balancing, building brain resilience comes from things like sleep, good quality sleep. And then there are lots of things we can talk about. How do we get good quality sleep and the signs of it. And for health of the brain, nutrition that becomes nutrients, balancing blood sugar that comes in with the nutrition and metabolic health, gut health. There is this important connection with the gut microbiome, the gut brain connection, physical activity, how we utilize physical activity to help our brains, to help our whole body. And also it has that part with the balancing of the autonomic nervous system and mindset as well. So those are some of the components of the first part of building brain resilience. And then you have the other part of balancing the autonomic nervous system.
[00:09:38] Speaker B: Love that. And such a very, very clear and easy way for us to digest that. Now tell us, you did speak a little bit about how important sleep is. What are some of the things you've uncovered there and that you're recommending when you're seeing your patients?
[00:09:54] Speaker C: Thank you. One of the key things I find is that sleep or disruption to sleep is very common. It seems to be a rampant modern phenomenon. Of course, there are lots of reasons why that could be to understand that There is the work schedule, there are all the work communications, the electronic devices, there are, you know, the opportunities to go out later in the evening, entertainment.
There is a lot of stress, a lot of, of things on people's minds. Timing of work, what time people have to wake up to get to work, what time they have to, you know, what time they get back in the evening. So lots of disruptions to sleep. And I always start off with asking people how they feel their quality of sleep is. So you're always starting with where people are in the first place and to understand whether they feel it's a priority. That's one of the big things with supporting behaviour change that is appropriate for the person is this approach I take of what we call motivational interviewing. It's a really wonderful program. I learned about how we can ask people to understand Their motivations to be able to then provide the appropriate tools for them at the time when they need it. I'll be firstly understanding what they think about sleep and whether they understand it's important or not, and whether they want to start to bring it in as a priority. So that's the first step. And for those people who are interested, for example, if they have got metabolic health problems or they have other stress issues that's affecting their memory or their thinking, maybe they're not thinking as sharply or they're having migraines. So those are the kind of things I see in my clinic. And that's when we realize that sleep could be a big part of that disrupted sleep. The first thing I talk about is regularity of pattern. Our body loves rhythm, and we have something called the circadian rhythm in our body. Our brain has a part of the brain that is the suprachiasmatic nucleus, that is the master clock that tells us when to wake, when to sleep, and when we help our master clock, it really helps improve the quality of sleep. So you may know that as we sleep through the night, a lot of intricate things happen in our brain. Our brain goes through cycles, cycles, that is on average, 90 minutes. And therefore, through one a night's sleep, most people will go through perhaps about five or six cycles, depending on how many hours of sleep they get. And within each cycle, people will go through from light sleep to deep sleep to rapid eye movement, REM phase. And each of these phases has important functions. In recent years, we discovered that in the deep sleep phase, we, as in the scientific community, not me personally, but the scientific researchers have discovered that this deep sleep phase is incredible. There is this flushing effect for toxins. So it's what we call the glymphatic system, kind of like what you may have heard of lymphatics, you know, lymphatic massages, lymphatics to help clear our body's toxin. In a similar way, we think of glymphatics as the brain's way of flushing out toxins. So that happens in deep sleep, where there are channels that open that allows us to clear the toxins. So that is really important.
And having a regular pattern where we go to sleep at the same time every night, we wake up at the same time every morning as much as possible. Of course, it's 80% of the time is great. So, you know, it's not about perfection, it's about progress. And if people get into that regular rhythm, their body can get better quality sleep. So they can get more deep sleep when they need to get deep sleep or they can get more REM sleep when they need it. So deep sleep, there is more deep sleep in the first part of our night. So let's say if you go to bed at 10pm, you wake up at 6am so you know, in the first half, like 10 to 2 or something like that, I need to do quick math in my head. But the first half of the night there is more, proportionally more deep sleep and the second half there is proportionally more rapid eye movement phase. And the rapid eye movement or the REM phase is really important as well. It's got function, it really helps with our immune system, with emotional regulation, therefore helps with stress levels. It's really important for willpower and stress management, as I mentioned. So people are not grabbing for the sugary treats. People are not getting really more worked up than they normally would if they had good quality sleep. So all that will have impact on the brain and wider health as well. So that starts with, number one, regularity of sleep. And then we can delve a bit further into what's the quality of sleep. How do they feel in the morning, morning, how many hours do they need, what are the tips to get them into a rhythm and so and so forth.
[00:15:02] Speaker B: Great, great insights and tips for everybody that I'm sure. I know a lot of people struggle with that.
Now tell me, so if somebody, you know, is trying to, you know, enhance their brain health, what are some of the core principles around the resilient mind approach? Because I know that kind of, that part of this, the whole program that you've built.
[00:15:23] Speaker C: Absolutely, absolutely. So I talk about sleep as the first foundation because I think sleep has all the influences, as I mentioned. And then we start talking about metabolic health.
There are a few things, again, I tailor it according to individual. But let's bring up metabolic health now. So metabolic health, we know that when people have certain types of food, if it's quite sugary or there is a high glycemic index, which is the blood sugar response to shoot up. If they have carbohydrates, that causes a blood sugar spike that oftentimes come with a crash in the blood sugar because the body is trying to get on top of the blood sugar control. And this swings of blood sugar shooting up and crashing down, really, you know, people get, it's not that great for the brain.
It can affect how people can concentrate, how sharp they are, how productive they are. And some people even talk about feeling as if they've got A foggy brain, like a brain fog type thing when the blood sugar is on a roller coaster.
So we start talking about how do they feel after their meals? What kind of foods are they having, what's the composition of their meals, what kind of snacks they have? So really some tips I share could be thinking about what they're having for lunch. Many people may just grab a sandwich, for example, in the uk, and usually it'll be grab a sandwich and grab a packet of potato chips. We call it crisps in the uk, but basically it's potato chips and maybe a bottle of orange juice. That's very typical. You go to the shop and you buy this lunch deal.
And unfortunately for many people, this combination oftentimes with the sugary juice, you know, and the sandwich, which is oftentimes just heavy on bread and the potato chips, it just causes a blood sugar spike. People then oftentimes an hour later feel, oof, really very drowsy and sleepy. Of course, there's a natural rhythm of the body to feel a bit drowsy in the afternoon. And one question though, to ask is how much, if there is any contribution from blood sugar. And I have found for some people, we adjust their lunch so they could go, they start with a salad, a big bowl of salad, lots of leafy greens, and then they have a little bowl of soup and then they have their sandwich. And that really stabilizes, gives them an even steady energy, which is which Then they can feel much more productive in the afternoon and they feel better. They're not thinking that, oh, I really need to go home now. I'm really drowsy, for example, because of the sugar crash. So that's a stabilization. Another example could be breakfast, often with convenience. Many people go for cereal. They just grab a big, you know, quickly have some cereal, oftentimes cornflakes, for example. And that could also cause a big spike in blood sugar. And not surprisingly, a few hours later, there's this big hunger pang. Some people say that, oh, actually if I eat breakfast, I seem to get more hungry. And that could be actually to do with rash in blood sugar. So then we start talking about the composition of breakfast. What kind of breakfast do people have to stabilize their blood sugar? It could be things like having beans on rye bread, for example, or porridge oats. Porridge? Oats would be the steel cut oats and having berries and nuts and seeds. So kind of different composition of breakfast. More protein as well, could be beans or eggs, those kind of breakfasts that will give a steady level of energy and Avoiding juices, sadly. I know it's very delicious, it can cause a sharp spike. But then of course it's not about complete abstinence, it's about timing as well. So for people who do have a sweet tooth, we time when they have their dessert. For example, if they want to have a piece of cake, have it after a balanced meal and that will stabilize the blood sugar response in a smaller amount as well.
I love talking about this. I've actually been writing a book. I'm so excited. It's coming out in November. I'm not sure when this podcast will be out. It's called Sweet Spot for Brain Health. I've been doing a disreal deep dive. I've been talking about blood sugar for many, many years and I finally thought, oh, a book would be helpful. So yeah, those are some of the tips. So that's the blood sugar metabolic health part. In answer to your question, for some people we start talking about other things like gut health.
We have a lot of ultra processed foods and for example, in the U.S. 60% of calories come from ultra processed foods. We understand where it comes from, firstly with convenience and then there is also that increasing the appetite for these foods. Therefore people tend to crave them more and eat them more and buy them.
There are lots of of reasons how ultra processed foods come to be and I think what's really important that we get educated about our choices. So it's fine to have ultra processed food if you know that you really choose to have it, but it's not so fine if you are not really aware that you are having a craving for. I used to have a craving for a diet cola all the time, not realizing why, but you know, and then we actually understand, oh, we have certain types of cravings. It's not because because we are weak, it's not because we don't have willpower. It's because of other influences whether, you know, it's the kind of food that's changing our body, changing our blood sugar, changing our gut and things. So yeah, so we start talking, I start talking about gut health as well for those where that's relevant.
And we talk about how we start to take off ultra processed foods, having more whole foods and doing it in an appropriate way. And the next one we could talk about would be physical activity. So many benefits to physical activity. And actually it can be about just moving more, it could be about exercise, it could be about strength training, it could be about cardio. And again in the same way I start off with where the person's at and I take them to where they may wish to explore. Some people I look after, they may have very troublesome migraines. So talking about a lot of exercise is not the right time. Their body's not ready. Their body needs to settle and be soothed before they're ready to engage in more physical activity. So then we talk about going for stroll, a morning stroll, and that's a tip I would love to share with your listeners who may already know this tip. I invite people to go for a walk in the morning. You wake up, you go for a walk, you get natural light, you let your brain know your suprachiasmatic nucleus, your master clock knows it's the morning and you go for a little exercise with walking or a brisk walk. And it's just wonderful to set somebody up for the day.
I can talk forever, Stacy, but I will stop so that you can ask me questions. Otherwise it's a monologue.
[00:22:46] Speaker B: I know I need to start doing that. I love that. Well, tell us. Okay, so this is a very, I think a lot of people here struggle with the gut health issue because like you said, our over reliance of processed food and where the food is from in the US so is the way that you kind of try to treat that is just incorporating more of these, you know, more wholesome, you know, whole grain type foods or what are other little tips around that that you typically recommend?
[00:23:18] Speaker C: Yeah, I have written a little book as well on this because I find it's so rampant a problem that people see me and ask me all the time. So I have this little six week approach, approach to that. And so yeah, I've got a little book called Quit Ultra Processed Foods. Now I'm so motivated to write because I have so many things. I keep talking to my patients in clinic and then somebody said to me, oh, why are you not sharing about this more widely? And I thought that's a really important question to ask myself. If I feel so passionate about this, if I see the changes in my patients in clinic, why am I not talking about it more? And that's why I'm on this podcast. That's why I'm starting to talk more and writing books for the public.
So yeah, so the kind of approaches for ultra processed foods, actually it starts off with awareness, firstly for people to understand why they may wish to cut out ultra processed foods, the health benefits for it, and whether they feel that, okay, they're ready. So that's the first step. So that's one of my chapters to understand and then it would be being aware of what are the current habits. So there are probably habits that we all have for any habits that may not be in our awareness until we start observing it. So there is this little thing where people start to observe what they're having, what they are reaching for and what they're reaching for. If it's ultra processed. So there is a little bit about educating what is ultra processed foods, how to read labels and understand it.
Why are we reaching for it? Is it convenience? If it's convenience, then it's like, all right, okay, what are equivalent whole food substitutions, for example, that we can look when we go to the grocery store? Or how can we make these things ourselves? Because many things, like sauces, you know, tomato sauce, I think you call it tomato sauce in the U.S. right, for your spaghetti. Yeah, tomato sauce and such things.
It's really surprising. It's not that hard to make, for example, get a whole bunch of tomatoes from the farmers market or the fresh. Get it from the fresh food aisle and cook it with a bit of onions and put in the tomatoes and put in some tomato puree and put in some herbs and salt and pepper and it's like amazing. Homemade. It doesn't take a, it doesn't take that long. You know, 10 minutes all done. It's equivalent to the time. So kind of these things for people to think about. So one could. Convenience. What's their motivation?
Another one could be that there are memories. Like, you know, some people think of, oh, I'm going, it's holiday time, going for ice cream and having all these treats. So there's nothing wrong about that. So it's not about, you know, saying something is bad. It's more about, okay, if I want to have this thing that is linked with great memories, how much do I want to have it? Is it a conscious choice? When do I have it? You know, that sort of setting so that then people can kind of make a choice like, all right, okay, I'm going to have this at a specific time rather than every evening in front of television having ice cream. Because it just becomes a habit just grabbing for it and you know, to get that boost. And then the other thing would be, what else is it? That could there be emotional reason for grabbing for something for a boost. So then we talk about emotional well being and what are the other motivations and so and so forth. There's other things about how people can start to get into a routine where they can buy things that stock up their pantry, how they can maneuver around holiday season and how they can make changes that could support their family as well or if their family don't want to do it. So do it in a very kind and supportive way. So no judgment about if somebody chooses to continue with having ultra processed foods, understanding that there are reasons why it may be the right thing for that person at that time and when they're ready, perhaps conversations, you know, about helping support some changes.
[00:27:34] Speaker B: Well, you mentioned the holidays and the holidays are coming up. So this might be a great time to get this book for, you know, somebody that you care about, that you want to help, you know, make some changes. So what was the name of that book again so our viewers and listeners can find that?
[00:27:49] Speaker C: Thank you. It's Quit Ultra Processed Foods Now. It's a short book, it's in a workbook style and there are sections for reflections and really helpful tips. It's been really well received. I'm so grateful. People love it. And I have other doctors coming to me when they looked at a book at when I was at the British Society of Lifestyle Medicine meeting, they were like, oh, this is going to be perfect for our community because it's written in a language that is easy to understandable and approachable and also in depth enough to engage people. So yeah, Quit Ultra Processed Foods now that's the name of the book.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: Love that. Well, thank you for sharing that. Now you did mention earlier that there's some times when you may then turn to medications. So tell us a little bit about that and when you as a physician make that decision to pivot towards that direction.
[00:28:45] Speaker C: Yes. So oftentimes I'll give an example, like migraines, for example. So when people come to me with migraines, oftentimes they are so desperate because it's an invisible disability.
It's not seen the kind of pain people are suffering. It could be that it's a severe headache, but there are lots of other symptoms that's not pain related. So it could be change in thinking speed, it could be change in mood. It's, you know, can't quite get the words right.
This constant fog, feeling this. Yeah. So there are lots of. And also of course there are visual symptoms, which is where I come in with, which is why I see a lot of people with migraine because they first have the visual symptoms and then they kind of get really very terrified. And of course then we realize it's migraines. So oftentimes it starts off with people feeling desperate and what all they may know is taking painkillers and the first step I do is actually education about what migraine is about so that it's a neurological condition. It's to do with sensory processing of the brain being affected and it's influenced by genetics and external factors. So external factors would be things that I speak about through my brain's program, which is sleep, the metabolic health, the gut health, you know, and we talk about stress management.
There is this really, really important thing about understanding the ups and downs of stress. I already said it's not about stress is bad, it's actually our response to it. We need both the sympathetic and the parasympathetic. We need to be able to get up and go. We also need to be able to let go and relax. And for people with migraine, there is this very common phenomenon that is a weekend migraine or a vacation migraine. So unfair because they would have been working so hard, hitting a deadline, and then the first moment they can relax, bang, migraine comes and then they are down. They can't enjoy the time with their family or their own leisure time.
So, yeah, so we talk about how we balance that. So it could be things such as breath, it could be mindfulness based techniques.
If it's okay. I want to talk a little bit more about mindfulness. I love the concept of bringing mindfulness into neurological research. So one of the things I've been doing is, as you know, I'm really passionate about lifestyle medicine. And as part of all this, I want to make sure I'm certified in this. Certified. It's a very doctor thing where we want to be certified in everything. And of course, I just want to make sure I'm delivering it appropriately. So as I was doing my certification in delivering mindfulness, I was so touched by a documentary on John Kabat Zinn. In 1980s, John Kabat Zinn, who was in Massachusetts General, developed an eight week program for chronic pain. It's eight week program using mindfulness. It's called mindfulness. It was evolved to call mindfulness based stress reduction. And the training I was doing is the next version of it. It's called mindfulness based cognitive therapy. And I was so moved, so moved by John Kabat Zin, a real pioneer of his time, bringing in this concept, treating people with chronic pain, where everyone has given up on them and showing them a way that they can handle it, that they can get on top of their pain and improve it. And that's a moment where I need to do a piece of research to convince my colleagues, colleagues in my field there is this condition where people have lots of vision disturbance. It's called Visual Snow syndrome. They have a lot of visual disturbance and actually the health of the eye is normal. The brain is actually when we do the brain scan is normal and what's happening, it's a dysregulation of the brain network, some integration issues. So after I was doing that training in 2019, I thought I have to do this piece of research. So I did this piece of research out of passion. Could hardly get any funding. Managed to get a couple of thousand pounds to pay for a psychologist to work alongside me. We got it up and going. We finished it in 2022. We raised a bit more money. We did this functional MRI scan as part of the research for the second part of the participants. And we showed that in this neurological condition, mindfulness eight week program improved their condition. It's the first time it's been shown and it's the first time it's been shown that it improved the brain networks.
First time. Amazing. So we're now doing a randomized control trial. Yeah, yeah, I know. So now we're doing a randomized control. Yeah, that's right. And I was so moved by all the experiences of mindfulness that I had therefore done more about mindfulness for the public writing this book Mindfulness for Brain Health.
This book which is actually.
[00:34:02] Speaker B: I love this. Yeah. Share this book with our audience as well.
And this will incorporate the brains program as well. I'm assuming that you went into earlier.
[00:34:14] Speaker C: Well, actually this was a standalone about mindfulness. It's really a self care and mindfulness. So it shares with people because oftentimes people go, oh, I'm too busy to meditate. Oh, my brain is too, I can't meditate. And actually this breaks a little bit of that barrier where it goes, what is mindfulness? This is actually creating more mindful moments throughout the day starting with some self care aspects. So we. There is this scientific part. So I talk about the neurological basis for using mindfulness for people's brain health for their cognitive improvements, memory and then there are other aspects that they can practice mindfulness. So and it's actually designed so that there are. People can do it. Like a year of mindfulness. There are 14 chapters here, but 12 of the chapters to indicate 12 months of the year. There's a list of things that people can do so that they can have little mindful moments to be able to start to incorporate that. And some guided audio. I've done some audio meditation guides as well as part of the book. So yeah. So this is actually just about mindfulness. This is the first. My first time thinking, okay, maybe I can write a book. So, yeah, so you started with this mindfulness exciting.
[00:35:38] Speaker B: And I love that it's by month, so you can kind of just, you know, chip away. And I think that's what I've heard, you know, speaking with other physicians is these small habits over time, if you start building them in, can make a really great impact.
[00:35:52] Speaker C: Yes, absolutely.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: I'm sure that your research will prove as well. We're thinking, right, absolutely.
[00:35:58] Speaker C: And then you say about how your audience, you have a lot of medical professionals and also, you know, healthcare executives making big decisions. And it's really. I love being on this podcast to be able to share where, oh, sometimes we can use what we consider simple inverted commerce approaches. But it can make such a big difference in people's lives. And I love the fact that my colleagues. I was so nervous about having this book out, thinking, oh, my gosh, I'm transitioning from just being a doctoring doctor in my little room, seeing one on one patient or in a group clinic. I also do group clinics. Oh, now I'm gonna go to the right to the public. And I thought, oh, no. But my colleagues, my medical colleagues have been so wonderful. They've been gifting it, they've been sharing it. And yeah, it's. And they are telling me that, yeah, it's been really very helpful, just this kind of taking care of ourselves.
[00:36:57] Speaker B: It must be resonating with. Yeah, it must be resonating with other professionals in the field that feel like, you know, this is something that hasn't been, you know, brought to light enough and really something that can help their patients and anyone else who might be in need. I wanted to ask you, you kind of talked a little bit at the beginning, but is there any advice that you would give to any medical students or residents or fellows that are considering specializing in neurology?
[00:37:27] Speaker C: Yes. So, firstly, it's a great specialty. I love it. There are also other great specialties out there. Other opinions are available. Course, I'm biased because I am a neurologist. I love it so much. So for students or residents, I would say go join the neurology service where you are at. I think it's about exposure to the field, seeing the kind of people who come through the neurology service and seeing the change that we can make, you know, the kind of things that people suffer from and what kind of impact we can make. There is a big need for neurologists. Well, actually, there's big need for lots of medical professionals out there.
Certainly I can see where I work in this country, there is a need for neurologists. And yeah, we can make a big change in people's lives. And I'm hoping that this interview, that we have, this podcast conversation, rather will inspire the residents and the students to know that, you know, sometimes we can do things that's a little bit outside of convention at the moment, but we get the evidence for it, we learn the evidence basis for these. And yeah, we can start to explore it in a very methodical, scientific way and bringing it to the surface. You know, I'm able to talk about lifestyle is because of these amazing giants before me. You know, you have really amazing researchers.
I'm sorry, I want to say his name. It will come to me shortly. I've got a. I'm so excited to be on this conversation. All the names are disappearing from my mind. I can visualize him this, you know, various professional in your state, California.
Really amazing people in the lifestyle medicine world, integrative medicine.
That shows that. All right, okay. What is the evidence basis for all these alternative approaches? And to answer your question, you asked me a question about how do I introduce medications? So once I've shared with my patients, for example, with the migraine patients, about the brains approach, I also talk about other things. You know, it could be nutraceuticals like magnesium or riboflavin. And then for some people, that's where they want to be at. For some people, they want something more. And then we share about. Okay, painkillers limited to less than two days a week to not get medication overuse headaches. So different type of headache that worsens migraines. And then what are the other medications out there? So there are oftentimes in many places, I'm sure in the US as well, there'll be guidelines about. About. Okay, which is the first line? The second line, what's the current. What are the other advanced medications, the CGRP medications, you know, the newer categories type for whether it's migraines or other conditions. So I think oftentimes as my job is to be up to date, up to date with advancement, which includes medical treatments, medicines, pharmaceuticals or surgical treatments, and also lifestyle approaches and kind of being aware of what's out there. And the most important thing, the person in front of me, they are their own expert. They will tell us what they want. And I think helping them to understand that is the first step. That is our service as their doctors. We are their guide. We are not there to tell them what to do. We're just there as a guide to share what's available. And then they are their own experts, they will tell us what's the best next step and then we can take them along that journey.
[00:41:25] Speaker B: It was interesting, you said that there is an over, you know, some of the over the counter medicines that you take can, can cause some issues. What, what are those? Like you know, your anti inflammatory or you know, some of the ones that help with fevers. What, what type of products are those?
[00:41:45] Speaker C: So in the UK people can get over the counter things like paracetamol, I call, I think you call it Tylenol in the us or you can get ibuprofen, I think you call it Brufen.
So they're painkillers? Yeah, that's right. They're things that people can buy over the counter. And these can be remarkable. You know, that's why it's, it's great for people who are in pain to be able to take it. The problem comes when they take a lot of it and when they take a lot of it, that could be because they are, things are escalating and they need something different. Or it could be because they don't know that there is the downside to taking the painkillers. They may be thinking that they are doing themselves good by taking the painkillers because if they don't take it, they feel the pain and you know, it's the understanding of it. So once they understand it, then they can make a choice. Then they go, all right, okay, maybe this pain at the moment is not that bad. I can write it out by doing some breathing exercise, some hot or cold compressors, going for a walk the other ways. And then when it gets really bad, all right, I will take the painkillers. So then they are informed.
That's where I think it's really important. At least they're informed about what they wish to do. And then we have to respect the fact that pain can be absolutely terrible and therefore we are there to help them find some ways forward to.
And not actually even not judging that people are taking painkillers. It's more about, oh, why are you taking painkillers? Are there options?
Do you understand the impact of it and what would you like to do?
What other things we can do to reduce the likelihood of more migraine attacks, for example?
[00:43:35] Speaker B: Love that. And it has everything to do with education, which is what is so important about what you're doing and being on our podcast today. And I, I would Love just for you to tell us, you know, what can people that are non medical professionals do to support brain health in their communities? I mean I'm assuming a big part of this is awareness, but would love to hear from you as obviously the expert.
[00:43:59] Speaker C: Oh yeah, absolutely. I think for people who are in the decision making position, such a wonderful position to realize that the preventative assets aspects so important and community as you highlighted, community, empowering people. So I think it's a lot of it's education. Education with which is the. As you're saying with this podcast we're sharing knowledge through the books which is why I write the books because okay, this is sharing good quality information that can help somebody. So it would be helping so so from the brain health perspective we have. So if there are talks or programs to do with physical activity, to do with metabolic health, to do with sleep, you know, kind of having less food deserts, having more fresh foods. Because I'm sure in the U.S. you also have a situation where in certain parts of the UK there are what we call food deserts. You'll be places that are impoverished. That's right, places that's impoverished. And for people to be able to get fresh food is so hard, it's so expensive. And I think for us who are in the position to advocate for change, to advocate for accessibility, we have a duty. Which is why I said sometimes it's not about if somebody's like going for ultra processed food, it may be the cost, you know, they may not have a choice because there's nothing else around them. They're working so many long hours, they're feeding a family of many with limited income. And how do we help these people? What are the options they can have? How can they make low cost whole food options? How do we advocate for more accessibility for whole foods in these communities? And sometimes it may not be necessary, it may be more because you know the kind of things it's usually packaged in the areas of food desert. So can we have kind of other wholesome options that's packaged, you know, tin beans or whatever else, you know, in ways that's also palatable? Of course.
[00:46:13] Speaker B: Well, great, great advice. Well, Dr. Swee Wong, we really appreciate you being on today such valuable information. I wanted you to give our, you know, our viewers and listeners a chance to just tell them where they can find information about you and where and where they can find information to purchase your box.
[00:46:32] Speaker C: Oh, thank you so much. So I have a website, it's and from the website your listeners can get access to a few things I have. My website is D r S u I W o n g m d.com so drsui wongmd.com and I have a Thursday Tips Every Thursday I write this Bite Size Brain Health Tips to Thrive. It's a newsletter. It takes less than one minute to read. I share three tips and I leave the reader with one question. It's quite interesting. People love it. So Thursday Tips so they can sign up through my website there is a link that comes up or it's bit li bit ly Dr. Wong Brain health D r W o n g B R a I n H E a L T so that's the other. That's the other. And then my books, they're on Amazon, very accessible on ebooks, hardcover, book, paperback and audiobook versions. So if they search my name Mindfulness for Brain Health Sweet spot for Brain Health Coming out soon. I'm so excited. It's coming out in November. We have the Quit Ultra Processed Foods. Now I have a book on Sleeping Sleep Better to Thrive. Also a short workbook like the Quit Ultra Processed Foods for people to start to get back into a good sleep rhythm and a book on migraine.
So I've been writing non stop 5am every morning. Get going. Write.
[00:48:02] Speaker B: Great discipline. But we love that because that's how the great information education gets out there and you're able to share with fellow physicians and then obviously just everyday lay people that need that advice and that help and that education. So thank you for all that you're doing and thank you for your time on the doc, you know, Lounge podcast. We really appreciate it.
[00:48:24] Speaker C: Thank you so much for this invitation. It's so much fun. I appreciate it so much.
[00:48:28] Speaker B: Oh good. We're glad you had a great time. Thanks. Thanks Dr. Wong.
[00:48:32] Speaker C: Thank you.
[00:48:33] Speaker A: Thank you to all of our listeners. If you would like to be notified when new episodes air, make sure to hit that subscribe button. And a big thank you to Pacific Company. Without you guys, this podcast would not be possible. If you would like to be a guest, Please go to www.pacificcompanies.com.
[00:48:51] Speaker C: Thank.
